Recently I looked closely at what it really means when a certain programming language, tool, or trend is declared to be ‘dead’. It seems, I argued, that talking about death in respect of different aspects of the tech industry is as much a signal about one’s identity and values as a developer as it is an accurate description of a particular ‘thing’s’ reality.

To focus on how these debates and conversations play out in practice I decided to take a look at 3 programming languages, each of which has been described as dead or dying at some point. What I found might not surprise you, but it nevertheless highlights that the different opinions a certain person or community has about a language reflects their needs and challenges as software engineers.

Is Java dead?

One of the biggest areas of debate in terms of living, thriving or dying, is Java. There are a number of reasons for this. The biggest is the simple fact that it’s so widely used. With so many developers using the language for a huge range of reasons, it’s not surprising to find such a diversity of opinion across its developer community.

Another reason is that Java is so well-established as a programming language. Although it’s a matter of debate whether it’s declining or dying, it certainly can’t be said to be emerging or growing at any significant pace.

Java is part of the industry mainstream now. You’d think that might mean it’s holding up. But when you consider that this is an industry that doesn’t just embrace change and innovation, but one that depends on it for its value, you can begin to see that Java has occupied a slightly odd space for some time.

Why do people think Java is dead?

Java has been on the decline for a number of years. If you look at the TIOBE index from the mid to late part of this decade it has been losing percentage points. From May 2016 to May 2017, for example, the language declined 6% – this indicates that it’s losing mindshare to other languages.

A further reason for its decline is the rise of Kotlin. Although Java has for a long time been the defining language of Android development, in recent years its reputation has taken a hit as Kotlin has become more widely adopted. As this Medium article from 2018 argues, it’s not necessarily a great idea to start a new Android project with Java.

The threat to Java isn’t only coming from Kotlin – it’s coming from Scala too. Scala is another language based on the JVM (Java Virtual Machine). It supports both object oriented and functional programming, offering many performance advantages over Java, and is being used for a wide range of use cases – from machine learning to application development.

Reasons why Java isn’t dead

Although the TIOBE index has shown Java to be a language in decline, it nevertheless remains comfortably at the top of the table. It might have dropped significantly between 2016 and 2017, but more recently its decline has slowed: it has dropped only 0.92% between October 2018 and October 2019.

From this perspective, it’s simply bizarre to suggest that Java is ‘dead’ or ‘dying’: it’s de facto the most widely used programming language on the planet. When you factor in everything else that that entails – the massive community means more support, an extensive ecosystem of frameworks, libraries and other tools (note Spring Boot’s growth as a response to the microservice revolution). So, while Java’s age might seem like a mark against it, it’s also a reason why there’s still a lot of life in it.

At a more basic level, Java is ubiquitous; it’s used inside a massive range of applications. Insofar as it’s inside live apps it’s alive. That means Java developers will be in demand for a long time yet.

The verdict: is Java dead or alive?

Java is very much alive and well. But there are caveats: ultimately, it’s not a language that’s going to help you solve problems in creative or innovative ways. It will allow you to build things and get projects off the ground, but it’s arguably a solid foundation on which you will need to build more niche expertise and specialisation to be a really successful engineer.

Is JavaScript dead?

Although Java might be the most widely used programming language in the world, JavaScript is another ubiquitous language that incites a diverse range of opinions and debate.

One of the reasons for this is that some people seriously hate JavaScript. The consensus on Java is a low level murmur of ‘it’s fine’, but with JavaScript things are far more erratic.

This is largely because of JavaScript’s evolution. For a long time it was playing second fiddle to PHP in the web development arena because it was so unstable – it was treated with a kind of stigma as if it weren’t a ‘real language.’

Over time that changed, thanks largely to HTML5 and improved ES6 standards, but there are still many quirks that developers don’t like. In particular, JavaScript isn’t a nice thing to grapple with if you’re used to, say, Java or C. Unlike those languages its an interpreted not a compiled programming language.

So, why do people think it’s dead?

Why do people think JavaScript is dead?

There are a number of very different reasons why people argue that JavaScript is dead. On the one hand, the rise of templates, and out of the box CMS and eCommerce solutions mean the use of JavaScript for ‘traditional’ web development will become less important. Essentially, the thinking goes, the barrier to entry is lower, which means there will be fewer people using JavaScript for web development.

On the other hand people look at the emergence of Web Assembly as the death knell for JavaScript. Web Assembly (or Wasm) is “a binary instruction format for a stack-based virtual machine” (that’s from the project’s website), which means that code can be compiled into a binary format that can be read by a browser. This means you can bring high level languages such as Rust to the browser. To a certain extent, then, you’d think that Web Assembly would lead to the growth of languages that at the moment feel quite niche.

Read next: Introducing Woz, a Progressive WebAssembly Application (PWA + Web Assembly) generator written entirely in Rust

Reasons why JavaScript isn’t dead

First, let’s counter the arguments above: in the first instance, out of the box solutions are never going to replace web developers. Someone needs to build those products, and even if organizations choose to use them, JavaScript is still a valuable language for customizing and reshaping purpose-built solutions.

While the barrier to entry to getting a web project up and running might be getting lower, it’s certainly not going to kill JavaScript. Indeed, you could even argue that the pool is growing as you have people starting to pick up some of the basic elements of the web.

On the Web Assembly issue: this is a slightly more serious threat to JavaScript, but it’s important to remember that Web Assembly was never designed to simply ape the existing JavaScript use case. As this useful article explains:

“…They solve two different issues: JavaScript adds basic interactivity to the web and DOM while WebAssembly adds the ability to have a robust graphical engine on the web. WebAssembly doesn’t solve the same issues that JavaScript does because it has no knowledge of the DOM. Until it does, there’s no way it could replace JavaScript.”

Web Assembly might even renew faith in JavaScript. By tackling some of the problems that many developers complain about, it means the language can be used for problems it is better suited to solve.

But aside from all that, there are a wealth of other reasons that JavaScript is far from dead. React continues to grow in popularity, as does Node.js – the latter in particular is influential in how it has expanded what’s possible with the language, moving from the browser to the server.

The verdict: Is JavaScript dead or alive?

JavaScript is very much alive and well, however much people hate it. With such a wide ecosystem of tools surrounding it, the way that it’s used might change, but the language is here to stay and has a bright future.

Is C dead?

C is one of the oldest programming languages around (it’s approaching its 50th birthday). It’s a language that has helped build the foundations of the software world as we know it today, including just about every operating system. But although it’s a fundamental part of the technology landscape, there are murmurs that it’s just not up to the job any more…

Why do people think that C is dead?

If you want to get a sense of the division of opinion around C you could do a lot worse than this article on TechCrunch. “C is no longer suitable for this world which C has built,” explains engineer Jon Evans.

“C has become a monster. It gives its users far too much artillery with which to shoot their feet off. Copious experience has taught us all, the hard way, that it is very difficult, verging on ‘basically impossible,’ to write extensive amounts of C code that is not riddled with security holes.”

The security concerns are reflected elsewhere, with one writer arguing that “no one is creating new unsafe languages. It’s not plausible to say that this is because C and C++ are perfect; even the staunchest proponent knows that they have many flaws. The reason that people are not creating new unsafe languages is that there is no demand. The future is safe languages.”

Added to these concerns is the rise of Rust – it could, some argue, be an alternative to C (and C++) for lower level systems programming that is more modern, safer and easier to use.

Reasons why C isn’t dead

Perhaps the most obvious reason why C isn’t dead is the fact that it’s so integral to so much software that we use today. We’re not just talking about your standard legacy systems; C is inside the operating systems that allow us to interface with software and machines.

One of the arguments often made against C is that ‘the web is taking over’, as if software in general is moving up levels of abstraction that make languages at a machine level all but redundant. Aside from that argument being plain stupid (ie. what’s the web built on?), with IoT and embedded computing growing at a rapid rate, it’s only going to make C more important.

To return to our good friend the TIOBE Index: C is in second place, the same position it held in October 2018. Like Java, then, it’s holding its own in spite of rumors. Unlike Java, moreover, C’s rating has actually increased over the course of a year. Not a massive amount admittedly – 0.82% – but a solid performance that suggests it’s a long way from dead.

Read next: Why does the C programming language refuse to die?

The verdict: Is C dead or alive?

C is very much alive and well. It’s old, sure, but it’s buried inside too much of our existing software infrastructure for it to simply be cast aside.

This isn’t to say it isn’t without flaws. From a security and accessibility perspective we’re likely to see languages like Rust gradually grow in popularity to tackle some of the challenges that C poses.

But an equally important point to consider is just how fundamental C is for people that want to really understand programming in depth. Even if it doesn’t necessarily have a wide range of use cases, the fact that it can give developers and engineers an insight into how code works at various levels of the software stack means it will always remain a language that demands attention.

Conclusion: Listen to multiple perspectives on programming languages before making a judgement

The obvious conclusion to draw from all this is that people should just stop being so damn opinionated. But I don’t actually think that’s correct: people should keep being opinionated and argumentative.

There’s no place for snobbery or exclusion, but anyone that has a view on something’s value then they should certainly express it. It helps other people understand the language in a way that’s not possible through documentation or more typical learning content. What’s important is that we read opinions with a critical eye: what’s this persons agenda? What’s their background? What are they trying to do?

After all, there are things far more important than whether something is dead or alive: building great software we can be proud of being one of them.